Hi. I just wanted to say that I really like the shelter I volunteer at ( which you have been to Nikki), but I know there are bad ones out there. It's a shame that more shelters aren't like this particular one.
I have actually seen people turned away from getting animals so it isn't all about getting them out of the shelter ASAP and the adoption prices are reasonably high. Unfortunately I'm the one person that I know of that volunteers or works there that really knows anything about guinea pigs. Hence the reason I'd rather not leave guinea pigs there if at all possible (I like to make sure I talk to the guinea pig adopters).
There thoughts are probably that it's better to get the animals adopted than to let them go to a rescue. I'm not saying that's right or that they go about it in the right way, but every guinea pig that gets adopted means that maybe there's room for one more at the rescue. Maybe you should try talk to the local shelter about their small animal adoption process.
Please don't give up completely on shelters and the people that work there. We all know that you are doing the best you can and I think that that is absolutely wonderful. There will always be a few who slip through the cracks, but just keep trying.
Elizabeth
Rescues and Shelters
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Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
Well, what is their official policy on holds? If there isn't one, or you can't develop one, that seems to be one place to start.
Obviously, you have had some frustrating experiences (we don't doubt that). The ASPCA and pound are bureacracies and as such can be difficult to work with. I think you have to sort through the hierarchy to figure out if there is a way to make you both happy.
Obviously, you have had some frustrating experiences (we don't doubt that). The ASPCA and pound are bureacracies and as such can be difficult to work with. I think you have to sort through the hierarchy to figure out if there is a way to make you both happy.
Elizabeth, LOL and brighten my day. Guess where those fosters live--right across the street from you. I was just about to send you their phone #.
I do like your shelter. Other than the clean conditions, I like the fact that the fee is 15$ for adoptions. The OC shelter charges 4$ and Martinez charges 2$.
I certainly would not give up on shelter volunteers. Where would I be without you and Teri?
I do like your shelter. Other than the clean conditions, I like the fact that the fee is 15$ for adoptions. The OC shelter charges 4$ and Martinez charges 2$.
I certainly would not give up on shelter volunteers. Where would I be without you and Teri?
Oh--Lynx, as far as I know, the official policy on holds is this: OCACC takes up to 3 holds on any animal. I assume that whomever returns first gets the animal. My feeling is that, if they're not going to distinguish between adopters and snake owners, then they should privilege the rescue's hold.
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Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
It doesn't make any sense at all to put three holds on an animal. And I agree, if it is a shelter, you would think they would be for the best interests of the animal vs. providing snake food.
See if they have a board or something. See if you can get it changed. Your request is reasonable if they care at all about the animals.
See if they have a board or something. See if you can get it changed. Your request is reasonable if they care at all about the animals.
I know that The Bunny Bunch is trying to get them to raise their adoption fee. Funny thing is, I was told that they were willing to work with us.
I guess I'm just really steamed that this woman, who I trusted (and have taken pigs from before--Ruby,the blue roan, eat your heart out, E--came from that shelter), turned her back on me like that. Apparently, it really matters who you talk to.
I guess I'm just really steamed that this woman, who I trusted (and have taken pigs from before--Ruby,the blue roan, eat your heart out, E--came from that shelter), turned her back on me like that. Apparently, it really matters who you talk to.
"Also, to the members of the board who do work at shelters, I don't hear any of them speaking up in support. In fact, one of them (I won't name names...do your research) has defended shelters for not honoring a rescue's request for holds.
So if I'm being unfair, where's the protest? Really, I want to hear it."
Chary, it would seem you are insulted that I posted, why exactly I am not sure, I was mentioning general policy at some facilities not making a personal attack on you.
It would appear you think I am completely uncapable of knowing your frustrations, I know them, I do rescue ... I also work in a facility who is rescue friendly provided you are within the law. I have felt the frustrations on both sides.
I explained that holds are not allowed here, and at the time, I was under the impression they wouldn't hold at the facility you were dealing with in the prior thread, and thought perhaps it was the same reasons why we don't hold. (*The three strikes option really doesn't seem like a "hold" to me and the first to return sounds like they cannot choose who gets the animal --- possibly a discrimination issue? That's a county law/ordinance here and the reason we cannot "screen".)
Rescue is a very broad word, and a very unlevel field.
Simple fact, ANYONE can slap on a smile and say they are a rescue, do we agree here?
Without licensing of rescues, who is accountable for the goings on at the rescue? The homeowner?
Yes, there are great rescues, some okay and some downright scary. I've posted some of my thoughts here previously, https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1646
Talk to any of the rescues, no matter the "category", they're all great according to the president aren't they?
First question here is are they registered? No? Regular adoption policies apply (NOTE: the ONLY thing a rescue can do differently than a private adopter anyway, is that we can waive the adoption fee -- shots, neutering, license, etc, all apply regardless; it's law).
I have driven to a rescue on my own time after a wonderful phone conversation about a dog only to turn around before going in. On the other hand, I've also given many referrals to rescues that do a superb job. You have to realize both sides of rescue have been seen in these facilities.
Put the shoe on the other foot to see where some frustration may come in;
Do you know how many rescues call a shelter in a given week? Do you know how many ask for laws to be bent because they are a rescue? Do you know how many "rescues" are in that county already who have animals not within the law and have been that way for months? It takes 15 minutes to hand an animal to a rescue, not so quick getting them back when things go wrong.
Do you know how many will tell a bold faced lie when confronted about the unlicensed dog they've had for 3 months, not UTD, never been to the vet? ("oh, he's been here 2 weeks") Are you aware of how many folders are sitting in that facility for "rescues" who have already messed things up so bad the courts have been involved?
The bad apples have indeed spoiled the basket in a lot of places. The rescue needs to develop the relationship with the shelter. If they are dismissing you, prove them wrong Chary, take the time to show them the incredible job you are doing.
"No, no, the person at the desk told me that I could have it because it was only on hold by a rescue"
If not for the snake food, I would mention perhaps they thought you'd be pleased one found a home .... rescue = find permanent placement (I realize this is NOT the case here)
It takes many kinds to make the world go round, guinea pigs obviously aren't a priority there? Educate them, offer up care brochures for their private adoptions, let them know you are disappointed they placed them when you had a hold. You can't change what's been done already, but find out what can be done for the future to avoid these problems.
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Just a side note, you may well find there are very few laws regarding "rodents" for a city/county facility to enforce, and perhaps that plays a role in how they are handled. Not making excuses, there is room for improvement everywhere.
So if I'm being unfair, where's the protest? Really, I want to hear it."
Chary, it would seem you are insulted that I posted, why exactly I am not sure, I was mentioning general policy at some facilities not making a personal attack on you.
It would appear you think I am completely uncapable of knowing your frustrations, I know them, I do rescue ... I also work in a facility who is rescue friendly provided you are within the law. I have felt the frustrations on both sides.
I explained that holds are not allowed here, and at the time, I was under the impression they wouldn't hold at the facility you were dealing with in the prior thread, and thought perhaps it was the same reasons why we don't hold. (*The three strikes option really doesn't seem like a "hold" to me and the first to return sounds like they cannot choose who gets the animal --- possibly a discrimination issue? That's a county law/ordinance here and the reason we cannot "screen".)
Rescue is a very broad word, and a very unlevel field.
Simple fact, ANYONE can slap on a smile and say they are a rescue, do we agree here?
Without licensing of rescues, who is accountable for the goings on at the rescue? The homeowner?
Yes, there are great rescues, some okay and some downright scary. I've posted some of my thoughts here previously, https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1646
Talk to any of the rescues, no matter the "category", they're all great according to the president aren't they?
First question here is are they registered? No? Regular adoption policies apply (NOTE: the ONLY thing a rescue can do differently than a private adopter anyway, is that we can waive the adoption fee -- shots, neutering, license, etc, all apply regardless; it's law).
I have driven to a rescue on my own time after a wonderful phone conversation about a dog only to turn around before going in. On the other hand, I've also given many referrals to rescues that do a superb job. You have to realize both sides of rescue have been seen in these facilities.
Put the shoe on the other foot to see where some frustration may come in;
Do you know how many rescues call a shelter in a given week? Do you know how many ask for laws to be bent because they are a rescue? Do you know how many "rescues" are in that county already who have animals not within the law and have been that way for months? It takes 15 minutes to hand an animal to a rescue, not so quick getting them back when things go wrong.
Do you know how many will tell a bold faced lie when confronted about the unlicensed dog they've had for 3 months, not UTD, never been to the vet? ("oh, he's been here 2 weeks") Are you aware of how many folders are sitting in that facility for "rescues" who have already messed things up so bad the courts have been involved?
The bad apples have indeed spoiled the basket in a lot of places. The rescue needs to develop the relationship with the shelter. If they are dismissing you, prove them wrong Chary, take the time to show them the incredible job you are doing.
"No, no, the person at the desk told me that I could have it because it was only on hold by a rescue"
If not for the snake food, I would mention perhaps they thought you'd be pleased one found a home .... rescue = find permanent placement (I realize this is NOT the case here)
It takes many kinds to make the world go round, guinea pigs obviously aren't a priority there? Educate them, offer up care brochures for their private adoptions, let them know you are disappointed they placed them when you had a hold. You can't change what's been done already, but find out what can be done for the future to avoid these problems.
-------
Just a side note, you may well find there are very few laws regarding "rodents" for a city/county facility to enforce, and perhaps that plays a role in how they are handled. Not making excuses, there is room for improvement everywhere.
i4u, whether or not you think you are not slamming rescues, it sure looks that way to me.
The Bunny Bunch is a non-profit SPCR, well-known, well-respected, with chapters all over California. There was no reason for the shelter to doubt my credibility. They simply made a decision in the interest of expediency and then tried to cover it up.
The very idea that suspicion about the legitimacy of the rescue played a part in either of these 3 scenarios that I mentioned implied that the shelter had the animals' best interest in mind.
And, like I pointed out in my original post, I go to that shelter every week bearing food for their rabbits. So you're telling me that they suspected that the guinea pig would be better off in a snake's mouth than with me? Come on!
The Bunny Bunch is a non-profit SPCR, well-known, well-respected, with chapters all over California. There was no reason for the shelter to doubt my credibility. They simply made a decision in the interest of expediency and then tried to cover it up.
The very idea that suspicion about the legitimacy of the rescue played a part in either of these 3 scenarios that I mentioned implied that the shelter had the animals' best interest in mind.
And, like I pointed out in my original post, I go to that shelter every week bearing food for their rabbits. So you're telling me that they suspected that the guinea pig would be better off in a snake's mouth than with me? Come on!
i4u, whether or not you think you are not slamming rescues, it sure looks that way to me.
Doesn't to me. As Nuts has said - she's a rescue too and has rescued quite possibly for longer than you have. It's ludicrous to think she would be slamming herself. She is familiar with private rescue, being one, and with shelters from working in one. That does put her in the position of being able to to offer more insight than someone just in rescue or someone just involved in shelters. And that is all I see here - insight, and invaluable insight at that.
And, like I pointed out in my original post, I go to that shelter every week bearing food for their
rabbits. So you're telling me that they suspected that the guinea pig would be better off in a snake's
mouth than with me? Come on!
I think you need to question why it didn't matter to them if the pig had a home or was snake food. It would appear they wanted those pigs out any way possible. First come first serve. So either they were out to shaft you personally - why? Or they do not regard cavies as anything more than a valueless rodent taking up valuable space - how can you educate them?
Doesn't to me. As Nuts has said - she's a rescue too and has rescued quite possibly for longer than you have. It's ludicrous to think she would be slamming herself. She is familiar with private rescue, being one, and with shelters from working in one. That does put her in the position of being able to to offer more insight than someone just in rescue or someone just involved in shelters. And that is all I see here - insight, and invaluable insight at that.
And, like I pointed out in my original post, I go to that shelter every week bearing food for their
rabbits. So you're telling me that they suspected that the guinea pig would be better off in a snake's
mouth than with me? Come on!
I think you need to question why it didn't matter to them if the pig had a home or was snake food. It would appear they wanted those pigs out any way possible. First come first serve. So either they were out to shaft you personally - why? Or they do not regard cavies as anything more than a valueless rodent taking up valuable space - how can you educate them?
Here is where I see i4u's "ludicrous" slamming of rescues:
In the second place, I strongly doubt that the credibility of the rescue was in question. Given the fact that we are in the process of working with the shelter on their policies, the reputation of the rescue, and the fact that I reguarly feed their rabbits, I doubt that the shelter worker was considering the factors about bad rescues that i4u is mentioning.
That is my point. It was a careless, individual decision that the shelter worker knew was wrong--or else she wouldn't have tried to lie about it.
In that case, what is "ludicrous" is i4u's absolute refusal to acknowledge the fact that some shelters--whether it is policy or individual actions or just routine practices--do not act in the best interest of the animals.
Instead, i4u continues to talk about bad rescues and defend these shelters' decisions not to hold the animals on those grounds.
And I will continue to reiterate that it is not likely that the credibility of the rescue was in question.
Therefore, there must be some other reason for this shelter worker's lack of concern for the animals in her care.
Of course I agree that there may be bad rescues out there. However, in the first place, making that judgement against a well-established, licensed rescue (who, by the way, the shelter recently claimed a willingness to work with) would clearly be reckless stereotyping to the nth degree.Do you know how many rescues call a shelter in a given week? Do you know how many ask for laws to be bent because they are a rescue? Do you know how many "rescues" are in that county already who have animals not within the law and have been that way for months? It takes 15 minutes to hand an animal to a rescue, not so quick getting them back when things go wrong.
Do you know how many will tell a bold faced lie when confronted about the unlicensed dog they've had for 3 months, not UTD, never been to the vet? ("oh, he's been here 2 weeks") Are you aware of how many folders are sitting in that facility for "rescues" who have already messed things up so bad the courts have been involved?
In the second place, I strongly doubt that the credibility of the rescue was in question. Given the fact that we are in the process of working with the shelter on their policies, the reputation of the rescue, and the fact that I reguarly feed their rabbits, I doubt that the shelter worker was considering the factors about bad rescues that i4u is mentioning.
That is my point. It was a careless, individual decision that the shelter worker knew was wrong--or else she wouldn't have tried to lie about it.
In that case, what is "ludicrous" is i4u's absolute refusal to acknowledge the fact that some shelters--whether it is policy or individual actions or just routine practices--do not act in the best interest of the animals.
Instead, i4u continues to talk about bad rescues and defend these shelters' decisions not to hold the animals on those grounds.
And I will continue to reiterate that it is not likely that the credibility of the rescue was in question.
Therefore, there must be some other reason for this shelter worker's lack of concern for the animals in her care.
Chary, you have turned my posts into being about you. Anything I have posted has been collective and the aim has been for you to possibly understand the other side just a tiny bit.
You indicated you know this person, you come in every week to feed the rabbits. If you have a relationship with this one shelter, can't you ask them why snakefood was acceptable when you had a hold. Seems to me there was not a firm "hold" in place as it wasn't one, but two animals taken off hold --- WHY? It would seem your relationship is not as solid as you now state it is.
The responsibility is yours to set up an arrangement and crystal clear understanding with any shelter.
You yourself have expressed less than admiration for a cat/dog rescue taking on guinea pigs, rescue is rescue right? It would appear you don't think it's always the case anymore than I do.
Sure, you are frustrated, sure you are angry, so what are you going to do about it? Keep being angry? Say they don't care (MAYBE THEY DON'T), or open up the lines of communication and know exactly how things will work in the future.
You mention the Bunny Bunch ---
The Bunny Bunch is a non-profit SPCR, well-known, well-respected, with chapters all over California. There was no reason for the shelter to doubt my credibility. They simply made a decision in the interest of expediency and then tried to cover it up.
okay, you go into this shelter every week to feed the rabbits so obviously they keep rabbits for adoption at the shelter.
Can the shelter screen potential adopters? If this shelter cannot screen adopters, snake food is irrelevant.
Honest question here, what is the relationship with the Bunny Bunch and this shelter?
Do they (BB, since this seems to be relevant in your relationship with the shelter) ask the shelter to call them when a rabbit comes in and do they come to get them?
OR
Do they want to be notified when a rabbit is going to be euthanized, in hopes that rabbit may find a home from the shelter, leaving room in the rescue for those actually "out of time".
You indicated you know this person, you come in every week to feed the rabbits. If you have a relationship with this one shelter, can't you ask them why snakefood was acceptable when you had a hold. Seems to me there was not a firm "hold" in place as it wasn't one, but two animals taken off hold --- WHY? It would seem your relationship is not as solid as you now state it is.
The responsibility is yours to set up an arrangement and crystal clear understanding with any shelter.
You yourself have expressed less than admiration for a cat/dog rescue taking on guinea pigs, rescue is rescue right? It would appear you don't think it's always the case anymore than I do.
Sure, you are frustrated, sure you are angry, so what are you going to do about it? Keep being angry? Say they don't care (MAYBE THEY DON'T), or open up the lines of communication and know exactly how things will work in the future.
You mention the Bunny Bunch ---
The Bunny Bunch is a non-profit SPCR, well-known, well-respected, with chapters all over California. There was no reason for the shelter to doubt my credibility. They simply made a decision in the interest of expediency and then tried to cover it up.
okay, you go into this shelter every week to feed the rabbits so obviously they keep rabbits for adoption at the shelter.
Can the shelter screen potential adopters? If this shelter cannot screen adopters, snake food is irrelevant.
Honest question here, what is the relationship with the Bunny Bunch and this shelter?
Do they (BB, since this seems to be relevant in your relationship with the shelter) ask the shelter to call them when a rabbit comes in and do they come to get them?
OR
Do they want to be notified when a rabbit is going to be euthanized, in hopes that rabbit may find a home from the shelter, leaving room in the rescue for those actually "out of time".
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Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
It was my impression that Nuts was sharing her personal experiences on both sides and trying to explain some of the factors working on both sides.
For the life of me, I can't see what you are worked up about. Sometimes crappy things happen and we have no idea why they happen to us. Alot of the ideas tossed out here were presented in an effort to get you to think outside the box and look at the big picture. Your case may be a "small picture" -- an individual who for reasons unknown made a bad decision.
Your job (should you hope this never happens again) is to find out what the policies are, get them changed if necessary, and -- looking at Nuts advice -- try to see things from their side also.
Not to mention, mistakes happen. On purpose or accidental.
But I just do not understand what problem you are having with Nuts. Her post in no way implied that your particular shelter had or has faults.
For the life of me, I can't see what you are worked up about. Sometimes crappy things happen and we have no idea why they happen to us. Alot of the ideas tossed out here were presented in an effort to get you to think outside the box and look at the big picture. Your case may be a "small picture" -- an individual who for reasons unknown made a bad decision.
Your job (should you hope this never happens again) is to find out what the policies are, get them changed if necessary, and -- looking at Nuts advice -- try to see things from their side also.
Not to mention, mistakes happen. On purpose or accidental.
But I just do not understand what problem you are having with Nuts. Her post in no way implied that your particular shelter had or has faults.
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