Louise - stuck bladder stone in urethra

daj

Post   » Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:49 am


I have a male who had stones, and I think we are now dealing with a repeat occurrence. I use the Solstice brand shilintong. At night I mix up one tablet broken up, in 8 oz. water, in an 8 oz. Ball jar. I add a spoonful of pellets and a sweetener like cantaloupe juice or molasses. My pig loves the mixture. 8 oz. is a lot of fluid to syringe. I give it 4 times per day from a syringe w/ the tip cut off so it's just an open tube. To reduce the syringing, at each feeding I chop hay and soak it in the mixture in a little metal cat bowl. Another trick I just realized is to pulverize some hay into a flour and add a couple of pinches of this to the mix. It helps soak up liquid, and my pig can eat that wet mixture on his own without me having to syringe so much. He successfully passed his two stones, and he loves his diet..

I also cut way back on the vegetables I give. I stopped giving him greens altogether. I assume a lower mineral content diet is best for a pig prone to stones. My pig just does not drink much on his own. After a year I began thinking I could slack off on this routine, and I even started giving him a little lettuce again. I was only syringing fluid once per day. Within weeks he had blood in his urine again. I went right back to the routine that was successful the first time. The blood has persisted though. I took him to the vet, and he is now on an antibiotic to address what I hope is just lingering infection. If his blood doesn't clear up after a week I will have to get him x-rayed again. I feel OK holding off on the x-ray for now while he's getting a very high fluid diet, and he is as lively as can be.

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puffin

Post   » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:54 pm


@sef - the vet ended up opting not to try the potassium citrate after doing a little reading (sounds like that is in line with what you've discovered with your vet). She suggested doing the Oxbow urinary biscuit for now as a supplement. For pellets, I had originally been doing the Oxbow red bag, then was doing a mix of that and Sherwood (the formulation with no alfalfa). Now, I've got the Oxbow Garden, which I have been giving about 1/4 cup for 3 pigs to share. I would like to skip pellets altogether or maybe just go sporadically on days when I can't get the pigs out in the sun for a bit for Vit D. It probably isn't worth digging up the notes for the stone testing just now. I have connections to a geology department here and I can probably entice them to test the stone for me if need be!

@lynx - I hope the bleeding is just residual from all the poking with the catheter. Seeing the little pink spots on the fleece is one thing, but last Saturday, Louise was up on me and peed and it was bright red. I about lost it in panic, calling emergency vets (none had exotics on staff). My husband talked me off the ledge and once the pee dried, it looked much less menacing.

@daj - Thank you so much for your post! My (Solstice) shilintong just arrived today and I was apprehensive about what to actually do with it! Your recipe sounds great, especially for hydrating a pig that is not a big drinker (Louise is the same). The little bottle has the human serving at "5 tablets two to three times daily" with 5 tablets = 1.75g Desmodium. Is that the dosage you have (I know you are giving one tablet per day - I'm just paranoid about giving too much). That is really good to know about the greens as well. I have been unsure about giving them (they give hydration but are they making things worse). I am sending good thoughts that your piggie gets feeling better and there is no recurrence of stones. You are doing an amazing job helping him!

daj

Post   » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:29 pm


Yes, that's the stuff. It seems quite safe to me, as I'm probably on my 3rd bottle with Jack. On the issue of greens, I am influenced by another experience with my pigs who are all hairless. They had horrible itching and lesion or scab like patches on their backs. It went on for about 2 years, I think. I went through a million different treatments, and 3 different vets. It was agonizing and expensive. After all the suffering, it all went away within a week when I cut out all greens except a bit of green leaf lettuce each day. Even vets recommended things like parsley, cilantro and the like for the fatty acids to help their skin. That's partly why it was so confusing. It wasn't until I stopped with the grass, the artichoke, the whatever else that's green that all our skin issues resolved. I just came to feel that pigs don't need a lot of greens, and very small amounts of any other fruits and vegetables. Anyway, that is just my 2 cents. Hoping for the best for your piggy too!

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:38 pm


If a fairly large (for a guinea pig) catheter didn't dislodge it, I'd be really inclined just to monitor.

If it moves and begins to block her, she will let you know, and that is a true emergency. Monitor and stay alert. But if a catheter didn't budge it, I'd take a small (qualified ;-) sigh of relief and just keep a close eye on her for now, along with the other suggestions here.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:43 pm


Just a note that guinea pigs need to be in direct sunlight to get any vitamin D. If they are inside, windows block it.

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puffin

Post   » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:07 am


Louise has done well this week. We stopped the metacam on Monday (the vet wanted to use it as needed if we saw blood). So far, no blood! Louise hasn't seemed quite as peppy without the metacam but I may just be projecting my anxiety onto her behavior. It is a little colder outside (and thus in our house) and I don't think she is a fan of that! When it has been nice, I've been trying to get her in direct sun for 10-15 mins. I am syringing the shilintong water, but I think I will have to try to make a slurry ro something because there is a lot of water!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:46 pm


Encouraging news! I hope she continues to do well and that the shilintong helps.

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puffin

Post   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:39 pm


I have made the shilintong a bit more concentrated (1 pill to 100 ml water) and she is really liking it. I took a taste and it has a sort of slightly sweet celery flavor. I offer a syringe to her throughout the day and she is drinking maybe 5 mls at a time without me having to force her (I think she had about 20 mls of it today). I've also reduced her greens intake too because of the stones, and I see her in the hay more, and thus drinking more water. So hopefully she is getting flushed out more!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:02 pm


Glad to hear she is enjoying it! I sure hope you see results!!

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puffin

Post   » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:58 am


An update on Louise. She is loving her shilintong and seems a lot perkier of late. Last week, I noticed a bit of gritty/sludgy urine that was either from her or our other stone pig, Marmot. It hasn't reappeared, and I'm trying to get Marmot some shilintong too when she will take it. She is a better bottle drinker. I am wondering if the one off of grit/sludge could have potentially been due to the shilintong working (i.e., if it dissolved the stone, would one see evidence? We will be going back for x-rays for both pigs soon, so will get a definite answer then, but was curious if others had observations.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:05 pm


I don't think shilintong dissolves stones. There's nothing that I know of that will do that. What shilintong does is relax the urethra and sphincter, allowing the existing stone to pass more easily.

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puffin

Post   » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:18 pm


Thank you! I think I have read so much about stones that my brain has scrambled all the info. I don't know where I got that idea - I appreciate the clarification :)

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