Elise's diarrhea thread
Hi all the cavy lover,
My Elise is a 5 years old female guinea pig with history of chronic heart failure (we got her out of critical stage 2 weeks ago). She is taking furosemide (.06ml 3 times a day), Benazepril (.1ml once a day) and pimobendan (.05 2 times a day). On top of that, she had a low grade fever (104F) on last Friday, and the vet prescribed her with doxycycline and baytril.
She had this combination of antibiotics for 6 days, and there is no change on her appetite and her poop was actually become more healthier. However, the day before yesterday, i have given her 130g of veggie within a 20 hours interval (which is doubled then what she had for the past two weeks). And the clinantro that i fed at night may be rotten (it looks fine to me but i saw there is a lot of leftovers when i fed the same bunch to my 4 other guinea pigs.
And nightmare started to happen, on yesterday morning, i notice a decrease of her poop volume but i wasnt paying a lot of attention to it, so i give her 22g of lettuce and 6g of baby carrot. At 6pm yesterday, i started to see soft poop and i immediately stopped all veggie for her. And at 10pm, her poop become very soft and mushy (it was like a poop that can break down to 3 to 4 health poop, but it came out as 1 connected soft and mushy lengthy poop). I paused 1 dose of Baytril last night, gave her 1 extra dose of ben-bec probiotics and reduced furosemide from 3 dose to 2 dose a day. I started critical care feeding this midnight as i see she dropped almost 32g within a day (776g to 744g).
However, it has been more than 12 hours now, but i am still seeing the poop remain soft and mushy. In terms of her behavior, she still eating hay, drinking water, begging for veggie, remain relatively active and show no sign of labor breathing.
Given her heart condition, i hesitate to give her extra water to hydrate her as i may just give her pulmonary edema again. So i dont know what to do next.
Is this an emergency? Any advice?
My Elise is a 5 years old female guinea pig with history of chronic heart failure (we got her out of critical stage 2 weeks ago). She is taking furosemide (.06ml 3 times a day), Benazepril (.1ml once a day) and pimobendan (.05 2 times a day). On top of that, she had a low grade fever (104F) on last Friday, and the vet prescribed her with doxycycline and baytril.
She had this combination of antibiotics for 6 days, and there is no change on her appetite and her poop was actually become more healthier. However, the day before yesterday, i have given her 130g of veggie within a 20 hours interval (which is doubled then what she had for the past two weeks). And the clinantro that i fed at night may be rotten (it looks fine to me but i saw there is a lot of leftovers when i fed the same bunch to my 4 other guinea pigs.
And nightmare started to happen, on yesterday morning, i notice a decrease of her poop volume but i wasnt paying a lot of attention to it, so i give her 22g of lettuce and 6g of baby carrot. At 6pm yesterday, i started to see soft poop and i immediately stopped all veggie for her. And at 10pm, her poop become very soft and mushy (it was like a poop that can break down to 3 to 4 health poop, but it came out as 1 connected soft and mushy lengthy poop). I paused 1 dose of Baytril last night, gave her 1 extra dose of ben-bec probiotics and reduced furosemide from 3 dose to 2 dose a day. I started critical care feeding this midnight as i see she dropped almost 32g within a day (776g to 744g).
However, it has been more than 12 hours now, but i am still seeing the poop remain soft and mushy. In terms of her behavior, she still eating hay, drinking water, begging for veggie, remain relatively active and show no sign of labor breathing.
Given her heart condition, i hesitate to give her extra water to hydrate her as i may just give her pulmonary edema again. So i dont know what to do next.
Is this an emergency? Any advice?
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
I am sorry she is so ill. Have you had a way to monitor her temperature? I was going to say a temp of 104 is fairly high but checking the norms page, I see two sources list normal temperature as 99.0 - 103.1 -- 104 would instead be high for a human.
https://www.guinealynx.info/norms.html
I think visually you would bee able to tell if the cilantro was bad. It may instead be bitter and not palatable to your other guinea pigs. I am guessing the antibiotics are the more likely cause of the strange poops. Unfortunately, I cannot make the call that this is an emergency - I do not have a veterinary background and can only say this is a choice you would make. You seem knowledgeable yourself and are trying to do your best.
If the poop becomes watery, I would consider that an emergency - or if you see a change in the behavior you are describing, I would also want to counteract dehydration if the poop becomes more watery.
You are really best placed to make this call. It sounds like you care for her a great deal. I wish it wasn't a weekend and you could consult with your vet.
https://www.guinealynx.info/norms.html
I think visually you would bee able to tell if the cilantro was bad. It may instead be bitter and not palatable to your other guinea pigs. I am guessing the antibiotics are the more likely cause of the strange poops. Unfortunately, I cannot make the call that this is an emergency - I do not have a veterinary background and can only say this is a choice you would make. You seem knowledgeable yourself and are trying to do your best.
If the poop becomes watery, I would consider that an emergency - or if you see a change in the behavior you are describing, I would also want to counteract dehydration if the poop becomes more watery.
You are really best placed to make this call. It sounds like you care for her a great deal. I wish it wasn't a weekend and you could consult with your vet.
Thanks for your reply.
She had accurate pulmonary edema 12 days ago and she got her temperature measured 7 days ago. Back then she shows no sign of other clinical symptoms except the effort of her breathing is still heavier than the baseline. So maybe there is some sort of bacteria get into her lung back then.
After taking baytril and doxycycline for 3 days, her effort of breathing is back to normal, appetite increase and her poop become more and more healthier. So i dont think temperature is a good indicator to reflect her current health, also i guess if antibotic is the root cause then her poop won't show any improvement during the course of the antibotic.
Also quick update on her, she is still very active and beg for food all the time. And her poop is still clumpy but i think the poop is getting a bit harder. Her weight also getting a bit heavier.
However, when i was wrapping her anus i saw blood, i think it may caused by me (kitchen paper maybe too sensitive to her skin). And thats the only time i saw blood so far.
She had accurate pulmonary edema 12 days ago and she got her temperature measured 7 days ago. Back then she shows no sign of other clinical symptoms except the effort of her breathing is still heavier than the baseline. So maybe there is some sort of bacteria get into her lung back then.
After taking baytril and doxycycline for 3 days, her effort of breathing is back to normal, appetite increase and her poop become more and more healthier. So i dont think temperature is a good indicator to reflect her current health, also i guess if antibotic is the root cause then her poop won't show any improvement during the course of the antibotic.
Also quick update on her, she is still very active and beg for food all the time. And her poop is still clumpy but i think the poop is getting a bit harder. Her weight also getting a bit heavier.
However, when i was wrapping her anus i saw blood, i think it may caused by me (kitchen paper maybe too sensitive to her skin). And thats the only time i saw blood so far.
Agree. Elise diarrhea is completely gone today yay.
However, i feel like she is breathing harder than baseline (not faster but the amplitude of each breathing is larger). I have given her more furosemide today. She is getting doxycycline and baytril for a week, i think it is because of the fluid in her lung again.
By the way, for pig that has enlarged heart, should we give watery veggie to them? Currently, i dry the lettuce with a paper towel before serving to her, i know if a human has congestive heart failure, doctor will issue fluid restriction, but i am not sure if this is the same case with guinea pig.
However, i feel like she is breathing harder than baseline (not faster but the amplitude of each breathing is larger). I have given her more furosemide today. She is getting doxycycline and baytril for a week, i think it is because of the fluid in her lung again.
By the way, for pig that has enlarged heart, should we give watery veggie to them? Currently, i dry the lettuce with a paper towel before serving to her, i know if a human has congestive heart failure, doctor will issue fluid restriction, but i am not sure if this is the same case with guinea pig.
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
I don't have a veterinary background but do know the furosemide can be adjusted (as you did). If you are concerned, you could also just rinse the lettuce and give it a good shake to remove the excess water. This would be a compromise.
I do think Elise is in the best of hands. You are very observant and fighting for her.
I do think Elise is in the best of hands. You are very observant and fighting for her.
Unfortunately, Elisee has passed away.
At today 4pm, i saw her breathing become heavier and from stethoscope i hear cracking noise from every exhale. I immediately increase furosemide intake to 4mg q4 and switched to injection for quicker effect. I got the cracking noise out at 6pm, however her breathing remain heavy. And my area only has one 24/7 exotic animal center and the doctor is available after 10:30pm. By that time her appetite has decreased by a lot, so i switched to critical care and just to get something into her GI.
We got into hospital at 10:35 pm and we immediately put her in o2 tank with an extra shot of furosemide. Later that time, we took an x-ray to see what is going on, it turns out she had pleural effusion. We waited an hour but we dont see a huge improvement on furosemide, so the vet use ultrasound and put a needle in her chest to draw out the fluid. What she got is fluid mixed with blood and she passed away during the operation.
From the ultrasound, it appears that her heart also has a mass (maybe a tumor) and the valve cant close completely (which means pimobendan isnt able to fix it as well).
The vet also said i have done everything i could and went way beyond as an owner. She also said even we end up fixed her this time, her situation is not manageable in long term.
The vet is not examinating elisee's body. I will keep you all later.
At today 4pm, i saw her breathing become heavier and from stethoscope i hear cracking noise from every exhale. I immediately increase furosemide intake to 4mg q4 and switched to injection for quicker effect. I got the cracking noise out at 6pm, however her breathing remain heavy. And my area only has one 24/7 exotic animal center and the doctor is available after 10:30pm. By that time her appetite has decreased by a lot, so i switched to critical care and just to get something into her GI.
We got into hospital at 10:35 pm and we immediately put her in o2 tank with an extra shot of furosemide. Later that time, we took an x-ray to see what is going on, it turns out she had pleural effusion. We waited an hour but we dont see a huge improvement on furosemide, so the vet use ultrasound and put a needle in her chest to draw out the fluid. What she got is fluid mixed with blood and she passed away during the operation.
From the ultrasound, it appears that her heart also has a mass (maybe a tumor) and the valve cant close completely (which means pimobendan isnt able to fix it as well).
The vet also said i have done everything i could and went way beyond as an owner. She also said even we end up fixed her this time, her situation is not manageable in long term.
The vet is not examinating elisee's body. I will keep you all later.
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
Oh, alex117, I am so sad to hear Elisee is gone. The vet could not have spoken truer words when she said you had done all you could have done. That she was able to give you insight into what was going on with Elisee I trust was helpful to you, the same as having a necropsy would have been.
You have all our sympathy. I know how much you loved her.
You have all our sympathy. I know how much you loved her.