Accidentally Got Liqiud Antibiotic in Morty's Eye

amberkenn2016

Post   » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:08 am


Hey all!

It might seem like a very stupid and small issue, but tonight while I was giving Morty a liquid antibiotic (Albon suspension), he moved his head slightly enough to where I squirted a drop on his eyelid on accident and it went into his eye.

I took him out of the cage right away and used a baby wipe to get it off, but I didn't touch his eyeball in fear of making it worse.

Is it safe and I'm just overreacting? Or is it going to hurt him?

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:55 am


Flushing the eye with filtered water would be my suggestion. I don't know how caustic Albon is, but do watch for redness or swelling, squinting or excessive discharge. How long ago did this happen?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:58 am


Ditto Sef. Flushing the eye with water (sterile saline would be my guess as the best choice) would be what a human would do for their eye and what you could do for your guinea pig at the time it happened. How does the eye look right now?

amberkenn2016

Post   » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:30 pm


It happened at roughly 4 am this morning, but it didn't seem to bother him. We've been keeping an eye on him and there has been a little bit of clear discharge however I don't see inflammation. He has mostly an all black face but I looked at the white in his eyes and both sides look the same. No redness from what I can see.

amberkenn2016

Post   » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:33 pm


Hello again! It's been some time, but in that time Morty was diagnosed with an enlarged heart in October I believe. Up until this week, Morty has been receiving 0.25 cc Furosemide as his diuretic 2x a day and 0.3 cc Enalapril once a day. The reason why I'm asking for advice, is because we've had to up his doses and increase the times we give them to him. Now he is on 0.15 cc Enalapril (it is a stronger form) 2x a day, and he takes 0.3 cc Furosemide every 8 hours. His original symptoms were coming back (drooling and a slight decrease in activity). His appetite is really good, and he's behaving normally, however sometimes he can't decide where he wants to go.

Right now, although he's still pretty active for the most part, our vet we see for his heart told us at his last checkup that his heart rate and respiratory rate is very concerning, hence the need for the increased meds. She's wanting to put him on another med as well (I believe she said it was Vetmedin?). We're really concerned for him and we want to make sure he isn't suffering because, obviously he's a very loved pig in our household. He's also a little over 4 years old, so he's not necessarily a spring chicken in my opinion.

I'm very indecisive when it comes to end of life decisions, because I want all of my pigs to enjoy their lives as long as possible. And I don't want to give up on Morty at all. But his symptoms aren't improving as expected, so I would like to hear any suggestions that can be thrown our way and if there are other options we could try to help him stabilize if possible.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 pm


I wish I had a medical/veterinary background and could give you sound advice. I take it you've read over the heart page thoroughly? There is also a sticky where people describe the kind of treatment their guinea pig has been getting. I do not know what amount and combination of medications will work for your guinea pig but when you say he is pretty active, it sounds like he is doing fairly well. How stable is his weight? Four years old isn't all that old. I could likely live much longer.

As a lay person, I wonder if heart and respiratory rate vary some and might increase during the stress of a vet visit. Respiratory rate you can time yourself at a calm moment at home. Is breathing labored? Has he had an xray to determine if there is fluid in his lungs or anywhere else it should not be?

Heart page:
http://www.guinealynx.info/heart.html

Heart sticky:
viewtopic.php?t=25375

amberkenn2016

Post   » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:47 pm


Lynx- Yes, he has had an x-ray, although it was at the time he was diagnosed. They found a bit of fluid in his lungs and the enlarged heart, but I can't say if it's really bad. And yes, while I have been spending alot of time with him this past week, I've also been trying to research in my free time, so I have seen the heart page. I timed his resting respiratory rate at 70-100 a minute give or take, which I've seen the normal variation to be 42-105 in most pigs.

As for his breathing, I wouldn't say it's very labored if at all, but he was having a difficult time with a bad hooting episode last night that last for a couple of hours. The hooting stopped later last night, and he's been fine in that regard today. He's still a very tenacious pig, the little guy still tries to fight me when I pick him up to weigh him and wipe off his chin. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for sure that he'll start feeling more like himself.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:18 pm


I am hoping people who are more familiar with heart pigs will post here. I seem to remember guidelines for judging the effectiveness of a particular dose -- when one might increase it or when to cut back, until you find the right dose.

It sounds like respirations are okay.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:49 pm


You could contact Talishan or pinta through the mailer and ask them to check in on this thread. Both have quite a bit of experience with heart pigs.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2020

Post   » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:50 pm


We have a dog with a heart murmur and he gets furosemide and VetMedin. The vet explained that the VetMedin helps the heart work more efficiently so it doesn't have to work as hard.

Furosemide has a wide range of dosages, and if there is fluid on or around the lungs, that will put pressure on the heart. Once the fluid is gone, they sometimes adjust the amount down a bit for maintenance.

My personal opinion from what I've seen is that VetMedin is a wonder drug. Our dog is still very active and has no exercise-related issues. But I noticed after the first week or so using VetMedin that he was sleeping better and just seemed more happy and comfortable. I can see a difference in his respiratory rate and his pulse rate. The vet said using both medications together will also help him to eat better. They have trouble eating when they can't catch their breath and their heart is stressed.

amberkenn2016

Post   » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:03 am


ItsaZoo- I believe she said it was Pimobendan, and I've seen that's also another name for Vetmedin. So many names! I appreciate you sharing your dog's journey with the drug. I'm hoping Morty will have a better time on it than what he's taking for now. I was told that they needed to get an estimate from a third party pharmacy to make it and I couldn't give the vet the confirmation and payment over the phone before they closed, so that's the first thing I'll do tomorrow morning. Morty is still holding up good now as we speak, so I have high hopes that he'll get through.

amberkenn2016

Post   » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:22 pm


Small Update-

Morty just wheeked and I haven't heard him do that in a very long time. He has a very distinctive wheek and he usually only does it when he's happy/excited from what I can tell. I almost cried!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:39 pm


Depending on the dose and form of the Vetmedin, it is possible you might be able to compound it yoursel - if they are crushing a number of pills and putting them into a suspension.

Here is a topic about a member (who happened to be a nurse) who compounded a heart medication for her guinea pig:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18899

amberkenn2016

Post   » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:30 am


Thank you for the reference! Apparently they're getting the Vetmedin in as a special order because the kind they have is for dogs, is what I was told. I figure it's the same drug, just at a higher concentration, so why couldn't they just put a smaller dosage to it? But I digress. Morty seems to be doing pretty good this evening, so I'm willing to wait to get that Vetmedin. I will definitely look more into it though if I can't get a hold of the Vetmedin from the vet within a reasonable time frame.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:59 am


I believe enalapril is a human med so available in pill form for prescription - and then that would have been compounded. The dog form if a liquid (and not available as a pill that is compounded) could be made easier to measure by simply doubling the volume of the suspension liquid. Perhaps you can talk to your local human pharmacist to see what is available over the counter.

Here is an exhaustive explanation of compounding, when it is done and who does it according to the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association):

Compounding FAQ for pet owners
https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/animal-health-and-welfa ... q-pet-owners

They describe when a drug might be compounded, specify it should be done by a compounding pharmacy, and note that a compounded drug may not work quite the same as the original form. There is even accreditation for veterinary compounding by http://www.pcab.org/ , the Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board, for example (I think there are other accreditation boards).

One online pharmacy notes:
https://bcpvetpharm.com/products/suspensions
Suspensions
When compounding a medication it is the solubility of drug that determines whether it is a suspension or a solution. If a drug is insoluble yet stable in a liquid, it can be compounded into a suspension. In a suspension, the drug is first coated, preventing it from adhering together, then it is added to the liquid. This process enables even dispersion of the drug throughout the entire volume and more accurate dosing. If a drug is soluble and stable in a liquid, it is compounded into a solution.
Shelf life may be as short as two months. Suspensions should be shaken well before each use. This site requires a veterinary prescription (they appear to be a compounding pharmacy).

Oh, and I stumbled on a cool study evaluating the potency of enrofloxacin in three different suspensions, stored at room temperature in amber vials:

Stability of three commonly compounded extemporaneous enrofloxacin suspensions for oral administration to exotic animals
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23786194/
Abstract
Objective: To evaluate the stability of 3 extemporaneous oral suspensions of enrofloxacin mixed with readily available flavoring vehicles when stored at room temperature (approx 22°C)...

Procedures: On day 0, commercially available enrofloxacin tablets were compounded with a mixture of distilled water and corn syrup (formulation A) or cherry syrup (formulation B) flavoring vehicles to create suspensions with a nominal enrofloxacin concentration of 22.95 mg/mL, and 2.27% enrofloxacin injectable solution was compounded with a liquid sweetener (formulation C) to create a suspension with a nominal enrofloxacin concentration of 11.35 mg/mL. Preparations were stored in amber-colored vials at room temperature for 56 days. For each preparation, the enrofloxacin concentration was evaluated with high-performance liquid chromatography at prespecified intervals during the study. The pH, odor, and consistency for all suspensions were recorded at the start and completion of the study.

Results: Relative to the nominal enrofloxacin concentration, the enrofloxacin concentration strength ranged from 95.80% to 100.69% for formulation A, 108.44% to 111.06% for formulation B, and 100.99% to 103.28% for formulation C. A mild pH increase was detected in all 3 suspensions during the study.

Conclusions and clinical relevance: Results indicated that, when stored in amber-colored vials at room temperature for 56 days, the enrofloxacin concentration strength in all 3 formulations was retained within acceptance criteria of 90% to 110%. Subjectively, cherry syrup flavoring was better at masking the smell and taste of enrofloxacin than were the other mixing vehicles.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2020

Post   » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:48 pm


There have been supply problems with VetMedin for quite a while, something to do with paperwork at the manufacturer, which is based in Mexico. My vet has me reordering 3 weeks before I run out. And there is no alternative or generic available. It was developed and approved for dogs, so the use in cats and other animals is off-label. It is also difficult to compound because it doesn't mix with liquids very well, so it's tricky to get the dosage right. And if you have to syringe the liquid, particles may cling to the inside of the syringe.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:36 am


That is interesting information. Sounds like not all drugs are easy to compound! In the link I found above to a compounding pharmacy, and quoted material mentioned that some drugs are coated before being put in a suspension.

amberkenn2016

Post   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:45 pm


As I type this, Morty has been hooting for about 2 hours now. He's had an episode like this before, but it went away by the morning. We haven't changed his meds other than adding in the Vetmedin 2x a day at 0.2 cc. We don't have any 24/7 vets nearby to head to, and the closest one is about an hour and a half away. I don't know if it would be worth stressing him out and risking him dying on the way.

I don't know what to do? We've been doing great with his meds and I don't know if I should increase them to help him get through the night. I want to do what's best for him and right now I can tell he's having trouble breathing because of the hooting he's doing. Does anyone have advice, please?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:43 pm


Besides the hooting, is he struggling to breath? Are his lips pale or bluish?

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2020

Post   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:51 pm


If his lips are pink and he is not gasping or rocking as he breathes, it’s possible that he inhaled some dust or a small bit of hay into his nostrils. Many times that causes hooting and it can go on for a couple of hours, then they cough a bit and clear it away.

This is an especially scary situation since you’re treating heart issues. I hope it clears.

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