what's the latest about hormone injectons?

Post Reply
User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:14 pm


I'm sorry that I don't have any experience with that. I couldn't find much online about Cystorelin treatment in guinea pigs or rabbits, either. This has just a very short blurb:
https://www.vetexotic.theclinics.com/ar ... 0085-6/pdf

I think, as Lynx suggested, it might be a question for your vet. I'm glad to hear Zuki is doing a bit better.

User avatar
Tracy

Post   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:49 pm


Thanks. That's one of the articles I read when first researching alternates to surgery, posted toward beginning of this thread. The vet who agreed to try injections is new to me, and I'm pretty sure it was his first time using cystorelin in piggies (he'd read about it in cattle and has some zoo experience). I think he's the one who said repeat in 6-9 months, plus someone else in this forum.

I'm leaning toward doing it again even if she seems okay, rather than waiting for hair loss to perhaps return. But since we're not there yet I'll read some more, ask him what he thinks, and perhaps check with the triple-boarded vet I knew back in Boston area (who told me subcue was okay after I worried this Philly vet should have done IM injection).

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:10 pm


Oh, my apologies. You probably already did a search on the Medical forum as well, but there are several references that may be helpful:
https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewt ... n#p2235752

https://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewt ... n#p2205094

It sounds like contacting the more experienced vet in Boston would be a good next step. Keep us posted!

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:22 pm


Jessie never had any symptoms. No fur lost, no crusty nipple4s nothing. BUT she did lose appetite and weight. I can vaguely remember we did every 6 months 2 injections fortnightly apart for around 18 months. Then we did when she needed it. After 12 months and 2 doses Jessie did get another ultrasound to see how the cyst were travelling. To begin with 5mm after 12 months down to 1mm.

As advise discuss with your vets but like I said Jessie had 3 doses(6 injections) then when needed. After 12 months (4 injections) another ultrasound. Good luck to you and Zuki !

User avatar
Tracy

Post   » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:54 pm


Hello! It's been a while since my last post about little Zukina. Thought I'd post an update, and at the end is a question.

Around March I wanted to bring her for repeat Cystorelin injections since her hair loss returned and she seemed uncomfortable... I thought due to her cystic ovaries. The hormones helped her last year, and vet (#1) seemed on board to repeat.

BUT around the same time she was straining, hunching, and whimpering during urination and perhaps defecation (hard to correlate with pee and/or poop). I also saw decreased urine output, so thought maybe she had a calcium issue (stones). Xrays last August 2020 showed 2 stones in her urethra, and we tried anti-inflammatory med (metacam) with antibiotic, to see if she could/would pass them and to fight any UTI. After the meds, Zuki did seem better, so I thought the stone had passed (undetected by me).

I postponed the plan for hormone injections and had Xrays done instead (April 2021) to figure out her straining. Sure enough, a large stone toward the end of her urethra. I'm wondering if the two from last August combined to form one. This time vet (#1) prescribed prednisone, antibiotic, and motility med... different durations, but overall 3 weeks of meds (had to taper off the prednisone). She may have been more comfortable during that, but her problem continues. And that vet didn't/doesn't seem to have other ideas -- he said urethra inoperable because too small to suture back together, so I think my options were to wait for an emergency (obstruction) or euthanize Zuki.

In early May, I brought her to a different vet -- sent the Xrays from April plus an article about stone removal in guinea pigs (from my favorite exotics vet back in Boston): Journal of Exotic Pet Medicine 36(2021) 11-15, "Non-surgical removal of urethral uroliths using a self-retaining retractor with elastic stays in female guinea pigs (2006-2019)" -- good results among the 16 subjects and good diagrams/photos, so I'm sorry I don't have link for access. Anyway, I don't know whether Vet #2 used that exact procedure or not, but he got the stone out -- wphew! My photo is not handy right now to embed in this update, but suffice it to say I think her stone would hurt even a human!

A week later I had to board all 3 piggies during a few days of travel for a family situation. The clinic was aware of her stone removal and that she's been fussy as to what she'll eat, so eating less than normal. I was supplementing with Critical Care a bit since Zuki didn't eat enough pellets and veggies by herself. When I picked them up, not only did I notice bloody urine for a day but also Zuki seemed smaller/lighter. And she's still whimpering as though something hurts her inside -- doesn't really correlate with output. So the problem was not solved... or returned... or something else going on now.

Currently I'm trying to keep her from losing more weight and hope to bring her for an appointment to get the first hormone injection AND another Xray (at vet #1, since he's only doc who's willing to give Cystorelin). She may have another stone; I've heard/read they can recur quickly. If so, then we may go back to Vet #2 since he seems more invested in helping her with calcium issues... also a more impressive hospital, though pricier. I haven't found a vet here in Philly who has my complete confidence re guinea pig expertise, which is why I didn't have Zuki spayed when cystic ovaries discovered (that was actually another vet entirely!).

At last, here's my question: How much baby food is okay per day? She likes Critical Care mixed with a bit of 100% cranberry juice, but I learned she LOVES Critical Care mixed with sweet potato baby food. I give her some throughout the day since I'm mostly home lately. I also bought pumpkin baby food and a mix of squash-apple; we haven't tried those yet. No additives, and I know decent amount of fiber. But I don't want to impact her GI if too much natural sugar... and certainly I'm trying to avoid high calcium veggies (though I've read Critical Care is also high in calcium?). I've been tempted to give her oat flakes, too, but the carbs scare me -- again, don't want to upset her GI while she has at least 2 other issues right now (cystic ovaries and the whimpering/discomfort that's perhaps due to more stones).

Zuki is almost 6 years old and lately weighs about 700g. She used to weigh 900-1100g, years ago. I know they lose with age, plus I think her pain and meds decreased appetite. Maybe even her loneliness factored in, after Izzy died and before a new pal arrived. I need her to not get any smaller!

Thanks for reading and for any suggestions for weight gain, especially if someone has experience with baby food amounts. Zuki remains a real trouper through her struggles, so I'm not ready to give up despite MY struggles with confidence in vets here, finances, and other personal challenges going on.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:16 pm


Okay, Have no clue with the baby food but (a) when Jinx had a stone vet said she would try and flush it out first which got me thinking to flush more fluids so started to syringe her some water each day. Stone disappeared and (touching wood) none have returned. This is over 12 months now. Would go steady on sugar intake, maybe vitamin C would help?

As for straining and pushing and blood Zuki may have IBD-irritable bowel disease. Our Jill has it and it is like she is trying to give birth when she pees and poops. Her bowel is inflamed and this causes the cries and blood. She is on Predmix and Anaplex both steroids which help her. Predmix is suppose to increase appetite.

Jill's problems started when on antibiotics for a few weeks. She has had poop sent off twice and tested, X-rays, Urine sent off, Ultra sound, Vet went onto VIN a website for vets and that is how they decided Jill had IBD. She is also on a Probiotic, poop soup and Metomide.

I know how scary it is when they lose weight, 2020 Jill was 1175grams and now just over 800grams, I too don't want her to lose any more weight. You may wish to add her favourite veggies to a blender and add to Critical Care or you may syringe them on their own.

Hoping I have helped. Keep us posted and we have everything crossed for you and Zuki! Jill will be 7 in December 2021. Good luck to you both!

User avatar
Tracy

Post   » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:44 pm


Thanks, daisymay. Zuki's stool seems normal, though seems like fewer overall. I don't suspect IBD (don't know much about it either) yet hope not to do too much testing to figure things out. I thought Xrays first, then maybe ultrasound if no calcium issues seen.

I also hadn't heard of those meds. One sounds similar to prednisone, which we tried right after stone (that was removed) was confirmed. It did cause her to drink more and pee more. That vet (#1) said not good as a long-term med for inflammation/pain. The other looks like almost an antihistamine (?), though I just did a quick search on it.

Definitely I'm continuing supplemental feedings. She likes regular Critical Care (think we have apple-banana) and powder made from our pellets...whether mixed with water, cranberry juice, or baby food. Pureed veggies is doable, but can they gain weight from veggies?

I forgot to mention: I'm also mixing in some shilitong (herb that supposedly relaxes urethra) and confess out of desperation I gave some Chanca Piedra for about a week, an herb that may break stones. In the past I've given shilintong to another pig without side effects and think maybe it helped that pet. But I ended up stopping the other herb with Zuki in case that was making things worse, possibly creating sludge (if breaking up stones) that may not pass if she's got some partial obstruction. We need more Xrays to take a look. I also add probiotics powder to her slurry sometimes, though I think that diminishes the taste for her since she becomes less willing to take syringe.

Thanks for your ideas and crossed fingers!

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:29 pm


I was going to suggest shilintong. Does she seem in pain? Might pain medication help?

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:47 am


I still believe syringing her more water would/may help her pass it. Though if pushing and blood she may have a bladder infection like our Jinx did. Go for X-rays and see if stones have returned first. Perhaps take a urine sample with you as well. Again wishing you luck! Guess I was lucky when it comes to Jinx and her stone.

User avatar
Tracy

Post   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:51 am


Zuki has what I'd call fleeting pain, almost as though something hurts as her body processes food or urine (moving through) or when some organ is at work. Usually a quick whimper, sometimes with a hunch. Then pain passes, though not always output to make a correlation. Maybe 2 or 3 sequential, and several instances per day. Other times she stays still in one place for a while, and still other times she's moving around, eating, drinking, exploring a bit if I move cage items.

I've been giving metacam, leftover from vet's last prescription. Will ask if that should continue, and we'll need more soon (whatever pain med is appropriate). And I do give shilintong, usually half a pill per day (crushed into powder, mixed into Critical Care), sometimes full pill in 2 servings per day. She is not suffering, but I don't want her uncomfortable throughout the day nor whatever problem to get worse.

I asked vet #1 (who diagnosed stone in April) how much she weighed then, since I had to wait outside during exam. He wrote back 610g, which I don't think is correct... but if so, my goodness! I've only had one piggy get down that low, with thyroid problem. She died at half her normal weight, years ago. Zuki is now 700 or 710 on a good day (maybe baby food helping?) or 680-690 on other days.

User avatar
Tracy

Post   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:54 am


What are signs of pyometra, mostly bloody urine? This could be a reproductive thing, since she hasn't been spayed and has cystic ovaries. And is pyometra diagnosed via ultrasound? For the record, she's not having bloody urine right now.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:23 am


Our Choloe passed blood not in urine. Nothing showed up on any of the test. So she had exploratory surgery which showed she had a tumour on her bladder. But then she went off her food. We decided not have her wake up from surgery. She was 2. I would suggest X-rays and/or ultra sound but see if any shows up on X-rays first. Good luck! Keep us posted.

Post Reply